Greetings Friends,
I love a good, healthy congenial debate as much as anyone. I think debate is vital to arriving at the truth. Sometimes it is difficult and we can come across as know-it-alls or as argumentative. I think I succeeded somewhat in doing this in the debate I'm about to describe, but it wasn't all bad. It was a learning experience. In my former church, I was asked the following question (after being lectured and then given a litany of King James passages by a lady who had been taught from a young age that eternal torture awaited all unbelievers) -- "Do you believe that Hell exists? If so then why debate if it is a minute or eternity. Either one is too long."
Notice the tactic here. It's pretty common. She actually wants to debate, but really her side only. That's not the way it works! We need to listen to each other, and I think, ultimately, we did for the most part. She asked the question "why debate?" after having me listen to her make her case for eternal torment for a fairly good amount of time. This well-meaning (I think) lady proceeded to quote another Psalm or two with "hell" in it and a fear-based passage out of Deuteronomy, no less, striving to put a little fear into me, it would seem!
It became very clear that she did not interpret "fear" as it should be interpreted in the Bible, which is a "reverence for" or something along those lines. I truly feel sorry for people who have this actual fear in the sense of dread, which is really a deep mistrust of God, as if he is just waiting to torture 99 percent of the human beings he created forever, without mercy! Can someone really love or trust a being such as that? Does seeing this preached on the TV followed by a plea for money attract people to the faith?
Oh, what a different picture the Bible gives us in Jesus!! This is well-known, and I'm repeating, but it can hardly be said too many times that the harshest words Jesus had were for religious people, those who believed they were right and everyone else was wrong with God and doomed! I had a fellow tell me once that the Samaritan woman at the well in John Chapter 4 was "convicted." He repeated this four or five times as if that was all there was to it. I tried to get in a word or two. He said "she was convicted." This was my good friend who I did not want to argue with and so I changed the subject. But somehow he had crafted in his mind that Jesus just went around convicting people and condemning them. No, Jesus healed and treated people with kindness and mercy. That's what God is like and we can trust him! The Samaritan woman was, in those days, basically an "untouchable." Not only was she a hated Samaritan, but a woman, and for Jesus to speak to her was unthinkable! But that's what he did. He didn't rake her over the coals or judge her. Jesus brought joy to that Samaritan village! Just check out John 4 sometime if you don't believe me :) They partied it up with Jesus in town. The disciples were no doubt astounded, if not appalled, but this was Jesus here.
Now let's go back to that the lady from my former church and her statement here: one minute in "hell" is being essentially equated to of an infinite amount of time! Forever! This, my friends, is clearly irrational and demanded a response. Here is basically what I told her, and I do look back and think about how I could have maybe said things differently, but here it is:
I suppose I do not believe fear should be the factor or the attractor to the faith. The motivation should be out of love and not fear. Perfect love cast out fear! Certainly I believe in a judgment, but I obviously object to something being infinite in duration when neither the Hebrew nor the Greek manuscripts support it. One minute in hell is, by the law of common sense, far more merciful than infinity! I just don't think some of us (i.e. her) have thought about it enough and we are set in our ways. (note: again, maybe I should have refrained from this veiled attack or put it differently somehow) There are clearly gradations of rewards and punishment in the Bible and to say all people - for example, Hitler and the Jews he had killed are all going to suffer equal infinite punishment is unthinkable by any reasonable standard of justice and we know God is more just and merciful than any man.
So, yes, I believe there is a state in the afterlife where some will experience varying degrees of corrective punishment and if people want to use the English word "hell," then so be it. But the punishment, in order to be based on love, is a purifying judgment, like the hot coal that touched Isaiah's lips in Chapter 6. (Note: in this passage Isaiah has a vision where he is transported to the very throne of God and feels bad about himself. He sees an angel bring a BURNING COAL which PURIFIES his "unclean lips," as it is translated).
If punishment has no purpose, I think we need to reflect on the reasons why God would do such a thing and make up our minds while taking a hard look at the original languages behind what has become translated into English. The Hebrew of Psalm 9:17 is "sheol," the abode of the dead. This is not the place where only the wicked go in the Old Testament, it is where everyone goes! Maybe you will not be convinced by this, but it needs to be said for the sake of the truth. Even my most fundamentalist of Professors in seminary would flat out admit that "hell" (as commonly thought of) is not a word in the Hebrew, nor was it even a concept held by the Jews of that time. To go back and translate it that way was one way the Roman Church maintained control over the masses. Thanks be to God for courageous men who stood up to the church, without fear, and helped change things. Otherwise, you might not have any option but the Roman Catholic Church even to this day! Thus, destructive doctrines must be opposed wherever they are found and at whatever cost. We owe it to God, whom we are to love also with all our minds to seek the truth and defend it!
I think my mention of the Reformation and a couple other statements in there may have hit a little harder than I wanted to, looking back, with her being a Baptist. But sometimes things need to be said when people engage us in debates, or the other way around. I look back on this and do not believe I did a particularly good job of being like Jesus there, but I'm a fallible human being and can learn from mistakes and some of the veiled attacks I made there to maybe be a little nicer. It depends on the person we're dealing with, of course. In any case, I thank God there are people who are standing up to the malicious doctrine of eternal conscious torment in hell.
For an example of a man who has stood up to this doctrine of a malevolent God for years with great courage, please check out Gary Amirault's Tentmaker website if you haven't already. I know many of you have. Here it is anyway:
http://www.tentmaker.org/
And, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask me and engage me at any time! I also invite you to check out more about the Christian Universalist Association to do more searching at:
http://www.christianuniversalist.org/
God bless!
David
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