tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-67635513941042283852024-02-07T11:04:24.304-08:00Christian Universalist FellowshipRev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-19186272544901121292015-07-06T19:08:00.001-07:002015-07-11T17:16:13.614-07:00Paul S.'s Trip to LCBP<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">My
trip to Local Church Bible Publishers<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">Parker
Memorial Baptist Church and LCBP are located in Lansing Michigan about 80 miles
from me.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>On a pretty July day I drove up
there.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">On
arriving all the missionaries were out.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>I met several volunteers.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Kind,
warm, and helpful.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Like the Fundamental
Baptist I knew as a child in the 60's.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></span></div>
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<img border="0" height="280" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhfJpZh9fLEA1gLs2xG-R-ILsNgNJ50YJ6u7jbiLjVBud4lT41oSyjyViMs130zbQl-O7MwCb2klGWP4HJDFyBY1Hhfs0NttNT10jbbrBNXTYrBzNdohHD4AcmxRHs3U4TZP3xoEZ9yGCE/s280/20150702_114841.jpg" width="280" /></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"></span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"></span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"></span></span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;"></span> <img border="0" height="280" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEguxy0J0GQ3_UdgE8mPxtbOUlyiFQ79WzG_HUlExyubx1QlUVUakhQrpxlWhHpoXvRUAZp1Fwgk7FhutYmEzxC2AoqLsZjqr7WcTOvyKPr4mzd9PLsHt6eyojaeEcWuWhQoJnqLzaa39UU/s280/20150702_114909.jpg" width="280" /></div>
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Here
are some interior pictures of storage and printing rooms:</div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;"> </span><img border="0" height="280" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh41FYSVCpn6bUhtOeK6SPZF_27sbJ3B0owKO04wBJ0o13RxbwXRYNHPQBSQEjonprQwQSuqRECZV3mB6dS2VjyOTb8PnK_n0lS0nAMT4AR3gFl2h6WUWNWpJjxZy8GhDE1LUbfM3fEONY/s280/20150702_115909.jpg" width="280" /></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;"> </span><img border="0" height="280" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj_WvKpiZpkN4S4aAiT9etjjU63m4SLViKbq9Qha93x6vs_FfIaAuXA2LqUuA_CrHSb2TIxKBXGJi2jr7iw52vHpp4WHBe76SPhMVH-sipLpahXDoXWnVtsPdPYWGhisqy7I1JLa1QclRo/s280/20150702_115021.jpg" width="280" /></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">While
waiting for the director I took pictures inside of the sales room.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;"> </span><img border="0" height="280" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgTsdJH6_tqNpvLboPkI4WHFtXd2hUfc419srIFO1FnyMrieI9qsSYgEb1jnzCwRpHk_FoFWS2dRE7BK7gM-4ty_GsmJ2Tu0-h-RtT_Rdte-GNoEaTuQSnSoHCXz39JlDkhWuoi1EhEoNA/s280/20150702_132245.jpg" width="280" /></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">After
about an hour the executive director Dr. Dennis Deneau arrived.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>He began this ministry 35 years ago from the
Bearing Precious Seeds movement.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>He has
been the publisher and involved in design and production ever sense.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;"><img border="0" height="280" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEibkIOZvbtjAjTMhVgGAw8C9kr9QWwo49R9K49DzacpGE274pRgeTY3leI_YE2KTxSLNYkYjz5osOfDGRF1gHI8r9Ikrry40JcQr-4XN075FSD-O5Saz-S36t4Mf7cN4JkbB_snMZkBzGs/s280/20150702_115242.jpg" width="280" /> </span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;"><img border="0" height="280" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhEIPKoLOAWyGttFOMWNOu3FCjwTmQlkK_gA4apFco_tK1GALfOfitiuZUN9_qTcoSbAIoqamiATczVLlM2SuG8Gk2IZgpeiEQHb8OwCTgpX6ogG8h9z8Lh1u4ploPW2R-xUhCBGOyIbm8/s280/20150702_115248.jpg" width="280" /> </span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">Cambridge
closed its USA printing and binding and the small bindery in Woodstock Vermont
closed too.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Dr. Deneau's son bought the
equipment and moved it to Cadillac Michigan, it's present home.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Currently Bible production and shipping are
done from there.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;"><img border="0" height="280" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgpSwhZocmHdfXr55EEN3q65XxCDUHZwO2YE1KcHOOJE69tKljH5k_thBj3diO5G7O6LVdWy19r-4ztClfmRFb4q3crEu3U8HbzAcMOF2oSaM_Wt-0FZ2b3aM2_mIfHMD6iNIh-EmKhcwM/s280/20150702_115922.jpg" width="280" /> </span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;"> </span><img border="0" height="280" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi68cGYXmFxT3bHolOc3Sh4CQ8WbmhAbV7uVBrCbs4y3yD7F36joQD1olVguyMT5vKkikMD4u26x3Jl9gH4IFM6zQyJWUX_JnCyeHFR1YysfSPOW5_XOZ5jiWC5zI-M9xOTZDFtfTQZ6y0/s280/20150702_115947.jpg" width="280" /></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;"> </span><img border="0" height="280" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiq9YN6acLlF3aaGtBuql3mNQ1GmeiWKR3piMoTVoZoUAVIA4o5qh85KQ3i06c1VDH6DaBomhq_4kXIruc5taYX6BjD9ZGq-IQRXojHIWV9Tkc47nhjSVuCp9d6Dtew4OoRuGHjY_Y66RA/s280/20150702_120028.jpg" width="280" /></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">Talking
with Dennis one factor became overwhelmingly clear.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This is a 100% American Bible.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Paper from Michigan.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Cowhide from Ohio.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Printed in America.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I love American made!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;"> </span><img border="0" height="280" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhsmc0kRmdiek8oOGQTj84S0MrDI5r60Xc_KMpPFkKdSkaE5BAG4djysT4np9wwX_QiiLFy6_pBpqRTIwmqSkYy_4hVLeSMV5JsSusIVY1VI0CgYj1vE6vjXo4qjufST_Yj9vc800z71YA/s280/20150702_115122.jpg" width="280" /></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">Dennis
explained that he and LCBP are committed to the 1769 Cambridge text KJV.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>LCBP distributes over 20,000 Bibles a
year.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Most over the internet.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Representatives crisscross the country speaking
with pastors and to groups.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I also
learned our Bible friend Derek Jones has been selected to preview new products
on his Youtube channel.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;"> </span><img border="0" height="280" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjPOFQu53NPbR64OHTOORxNziCjhc7udsjgGtedqeEdFhYWA9Cv2sxdYtUSfd61goygQoyeCBkC204IKIZv8HGUVYXrFk-dFIvOoIGxllH2Lm_OxkLkIJ4lSXjjwqHvo8hQ4HzDnUFwQoE/s280/20150705_185036.jpg" width="280" /></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">What
other things did I learn.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Here are a
few.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">1)<span style="font: 7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">No
goatskin in the future.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Indian
subcontinent sources are unreliable.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">2)<span style="font: 7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">Their
paper.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>22 lb., opacity 82.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I was very impressed with the latest paper's
quality.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It reminded me of Cambridge
differing from their previous paper.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>A
20 lb. paper is being sourced for future thinlines.</span></div>
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<br /></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in; mso-add-space: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -.25in;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">3)<span style="font: 7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">Paragraph
Bibles?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Yes in the future.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">4)<span style="font: 7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">315
Scofield is changing to center the printing giving an inside margin.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>A 10% increase in print size too.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">5)<span style="font: 7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">TCR
is coming back!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Large print, red letter,
in the large size Bible.</span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">6)<span style="font: 7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">Prices?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Going up later this year.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in; mso-add-space: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -.25in;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">7)<span style="font: 7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">Overseas
shipping?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>No.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Dennis shared stories of fraud ranging into
the 10's of<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>thousands.</span></div>
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<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in; mso-add-space: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -.25in;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">8)<span style="font: 7.0pt "Times New Roman";"> </span></span></span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">Longprimer
challenged?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>With a smile he told me what
he would charge for a LCBP Longprimer!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt;">Then
Dennis showed me the new Signature Series art gilded hand-sized Scofield.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I bought one (added Berisford ribbons
later).<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The dedication and sacrifice of
the missionaries and volunteers us astonishing! As was Dennis' experience and
knowledge in Bible publishing.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Whatever
differences some have with their translation position it is certain that LCBP
Bibles are leading people to Christ.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span></span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
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<![endif]-->Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-44238919670777368022015-06-21T09:47:00.001-07:002015-06-21T10:01:12.451-07:00Orthopraxy over Orthodoxy <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="List Number 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="List Number 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="List Number 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="10" QFormat="true" Name="Title"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Closing"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Signature"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" SemiHidden="true"
UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Default Paragraph Font"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Body Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Body Text Indent"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="List Continue"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="List Continue 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="List Continue 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="List Continue 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="List Continue 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Message Header"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="11" QFormat="true" Name="Subtitle"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Salutation"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Date"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Body Text First Indent"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Body Text First Indent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Note Heading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Body Text 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Body Text 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Body Text Indent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Body Text Indent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Block Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Hyperlink"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="FollowedHyperlink"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Document Map"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Plain Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="E-mail Signature"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Top of Form"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Bottom of Form"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Normal (Web)"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Acronym"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Address"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Cite"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Code"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Definition"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Keyboard"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Preformatted"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Sample"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Typewriter"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Variable"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Normal Table"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="annotation subject"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="No List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Outline List 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Outline List 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Outline List 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Simple 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Simple 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Simple 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Classic 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Classic 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Classic 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Classic 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Colorful 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Colorful 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Colorful 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Columns 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Columns 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Columns 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Columns 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Columns 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 7"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Grid 8"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 7"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table List 8"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table 3D effects 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table 3D effects 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table 3D effects 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Contemporary"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Elegant"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Professional"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Subtle 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Subtle 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Web 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Web 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Web 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Balloon Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="Table Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="Table Theme"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" Name="Placeholder Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" Name="Revision"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" QFormat="true"
Name="List Paragraph"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" QFormat="true"
Name="Intense Quote"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" QFormat="true"
Name="Subtle Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" QFormat="true"
Name="Intense Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" QFormat="true"
Name="Subtle Reference"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" QFormat="true"
Name="Intense Reference"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" SemiHidden="true"
UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Bibliography"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"
UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="41" Name="Plain Table 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="42" Name="Plain Table 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="43" Name="Plain Table 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="44" Name="Plain Table 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="45" Name="Plain Table 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="40" Name="Grid Table Light"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46" Name="Grid Table 1 Light"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46" Name="List Table 1 Light"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="List Table 6 Colorful"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="List Table 7 Colorful"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"
Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"
Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"
Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 2"/>
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I am a firm believer in "orthopraxy" over
"orthodoxy."<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>That is,
"right actions" over "right beliefs."<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Someone may believe (or think they are
believing) the "right" things, but be a mean-spirited, merciless,
nasty, ugly bigoted human being (Person A).<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Others (think "Samaritans" – in the eyes of the Jewish leaders
of Bible days -- for Bible believers) may not technically believe correctly (in
the eyes of accepted religious authorities/doctrines), but actually be kind,
generous, loyal, merciful, and trustworthy (Person B).<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
In my former religious belief systems, person A above, was
still destined for heaven in the afterlife.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Person B was destined for “hell”.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>I never believed "hell" was an everlasting place of torture,
but I thought it was a real and permanent. I no longer believe this (and haven't for years), after a
lot of study and thought.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This idea of “hell”
is based on mistranslations and misinterpretations. It is an invention of
merciless human beings. Because it keeps people in bondage to fear, I would
even say it is a "satanic" doctrine, although most of the sincere
believers in “hell” are not bad people.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>So, the fate of person B in that system, regardless of the absurdity of
"hell" in my mind, was still not pleasant, because that's just what I
was taught.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Now I'm thinking, what kind of nonsense is that?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I look back on my former belief system with
horror. A lot of it is caused by taking isolated verses out of the Bible and
making doctrines out of them, without realizing this is totally wrong.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>What Paul said to various fledgling churches
1950 years ago usually has next to nothing to do with us today, unless it is
something which tends to make one a better person.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Much of what he wrote about is cultural (e.g.
women are to be silent in church; watch out so that you aren't bewitched by the
circumcised, etc.), and we make a big mistake when we take something that is
cultural as a timeless truth. Furthermore, Paul never said a word about “hell,”
and, in fact, neither did anyone else.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>There is Sheol (the underworld, the grave), Tartaros (Greek mythological
prison of the Titans), Hades (mythical Greek underworld), and Gehenna (the
garbage dump outside Jerusalem) in the Bible.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>No hell, never, not once.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
But there is one timeless truth in the Bible, and everything
should be tested to see if it lines up with it. Jesus summed it up this truth best
by basically saying just to love God and love your neighbor as yourself.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>That is ALL. It sums everything up.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But humans have mucked it up, over and over
by making stupid laws to keep people in bondage.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I'll just say I no longer follow those human
erroneous "orthodox fallacies", but take the good out of everything
and test it... if it matches up with what Jesus said above, then I take it and
attempt to apply it.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If it doesn't, I
discard it.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Also, recall in the Bible where two disciples of Jesus
wanted to call thunder down from heaven to destroy a Samaritan city, due to
their unorthodox beliefs or unbelief. Jesus had pretty strong words for those
two disciples. So, if someone is an “unbeliever” in God, then the answer
remains still to act out of love towards them and not hate. Maybe the person
who doesn’t believe just like us is right on certain things. Regardless, Jesus
seemed to be very confident that in the end, ultimately, everyone would know
the truth about these matters. The orthodox believers in fact, received the
strongest condemnation from Jesus in the Bible, because their actions were
rotten. These are the ones whom Jesus warned of “Gehenna,” commonly
mistranslated as “hell.” And, in 70 A.D., Jerusalem was sacked by the Romans
and the place known as “Gehenna” was filled with dead bodies, and horrible
things.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
I’ve been told I am deceived by multiple people on many
occasions.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Well, I no longer care about
these judgments by ignorant people. If I’m “deceived” in some areas, but still
essentially follow the command to be kind and tolerant of others, then that’s
fine.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Why people think they must get up
in others’ personal lives and beliefs, motivated by fear, hate, or sometimes
love (that is, they think by warning me of “hell” they’re doing me a favor, not
knowing I’ve considered it, and reject hell completely), just doesn’t make
sense to me.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It is up to each person to
live life however they want, as long as they do not harm other people, or
animals.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>That is the bottom line. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
This shows that even an enlightened fellow such as myself
can be deluded, sometime, and people can change --- hahaha!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>End of mini-sermon.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Take it or leave it!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Have a pleasant day!</div>
Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-89005145248317797872011-08-13T09:33:00.000-07:002011-08-13T10:15:50.907-07:00A Losing Battle Being Waged to Save the Doctrine of Hell<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Georgia,"Times New Roman",serif;"><span style="font-size: large;">There is somewhat of a war going on right now between those who wish to preserve the Dark Ages doctrine of eternal torment in hell versus the emerging common sense (and biblically-based alternative) view that Love Wins and God will ultimately reconcile all things to himself. That this battle is really going on became very clear to me last week when a particular lady began to post on a friend’s facebook wall warnings of a sort to reconsider and believe in eternal hell. The giveaway that these hell supporters are active and working hard after being put on the defensive by books such as Love Wins and Raising Hell came in the middle of this conversation on Facebook. The lady mistakenly cut and pasted something to people she was carrying on multiple (who knows how many) conversations with… the proof was there was another person’s name in the middle of the post. I busted her for cutting and pasting, of course, in fun. There is no law against pasting the same thing to multiple walls. But, that was exactly what she was doing. So she was launching this attack against the universal love and mercy of God under the same old guise of being concerned for our souls. Now, she very well may have been. But what is this really? This is mistrust of God, plain and simple. The lady was pleading in a personal tone as if the message was crafted specially for this one person. In fact, she was distributing this message of fear en masse to hundreds if not thousands of people who are ever realizing that eternal torture and God being Love are things that cannot both be true.</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Georgia,"Times New Roman",serif;"><span style="font-size: large;"><br />
</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Georgia,"Times New Roman",serif;"><span style="font-size: large;">The warped reasoning of these folks is that if people become convinced God is really Love and really will save all, and this turns out not to be the case….that is, if it turns out that the supreme being really is the Eternal torturer instead of Love, then believers who trust God to reconcile all to himself and have mercy on all are actually deceived and are leading millions of people – billions potentially, into eternal torment! What is behind all this sudden defensiveness of the medieval doctrine of hell? Well, three huge reasons continue to be--fear, fear, and fear! More of the same, but these folks are getting more desperate as the battle for Hell is being WON by those who believe God will have mercy on all and hell is in no way a place of everlasting torment<b>. If God created a place of everlasting torture for his own creatures, don’t think for a minute that God can be trusted because he can’t.</b> Even people who think he has provided a way out (how nice of him, considered he made the place, right? This is totally irrational), are not really safe and must “tremble” lest this being, this fiend send them to eternal torture themselves. Such a being would not be god, he would be a demon, and that is unthinkable. Thankfully, we know it is also not true. God is love! And Love wins. Realizing this will cause you to read the Bible in an entirely different light. Your eyes will be opened to this glorious truth! </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Georgia,"Times New Roman",serif;"><span style="font-size: large;"><br />
</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Georgia,"Times New Roman",serif;"><span style="font-size: large;">Blessings,</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Georgia,"Times New Roman",serif;"><span style="font-size: large;">David</span></div>Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-37423710630367676562011-07-07T14:38:00.000-07:002011-07-07T18:30:58.045-07:00Life is a Free Gift, BUT you have to (insert work here)<div class="MsoNormal">It is refreshing to have a conversation, a kindly argument with someone who sincerely believes in everlasting torment, that doesn’t turn ugly. I had one of these recently, hot off the heels of another one that had an entirely different tone. Most recently, the sincere believer in eternal damnation almost immediately brought up Hitler and Stalin. Why do they do this, I wonder? It seems to be an effort to show how universal salvation is somehow unacceptable or show that everlasting punishment may be appropriate for some people. As if when you may be trapped into admitting it is acceptable for Hitler or Stalin, then the door is open for anyone else. That is the tactic. Of course eternal torture is not acceptable for anyone, but we cannot let the focus remain on such people as Hitler. We say God will deal with him appropriately, and then move on.</div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">This is really a dishonest tactic for the eternal torment believer to use, but when it comes to discussions, it is intended to win an argument. The reason it is so dishonest is that these folks don’t go around converting the Hitlers and Stalins of the world to save them from this fate; rather, they believe ALL people who do not believe as they do are going to hell forever, with no escape. The Hitler argument is therefore a distractor. What eternal hellfire believers<i> really</i> believe is that all the people Hitler and Stalin are responsible for murdering are all going to the same place, forever, with no hope of escape! They believe that people living on the same block as us, in the same neighborhood, are ALL destined for everlasting torture unless they believe certain things about Jesus in this lifetime. Some say you have to be baptized, go to the altar call publicly, accept Jesus into your heart as “personal Savior” (a development of the past couple 150 years or so), and then demonstrate that you are truly “saved” by doing good things, by “bearing fruit.”</div><div class="MsoNormal"> </div><div class="MsoNormal">Preachers sometimes put a spin on Romans 6:23, which reads in the NRSV translation: “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Preachers will often say this means "spiritual" death, and that you "have to reach out and take the free gift," or you're not saved. But the plain meaning of the first half of this sentence is this: we all die! Every one of us. If Paul wanted to put “spiritual” in front of death, he certainly could have, but he didn’t. Physical death is the destiny for all human beings. However, even if one wants to interpret this as “spiritual” death (and this <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">may</i> be correct), this does not mean that a spiritually dead person cannot then become a spiritually alive person by the transforming power of God! This also is not limited to this lifetime. God can do as he pleases with his creation and the idea that any chance for spiritual growth, any chance for repentance, or any change is impossible after death is simply absurd, not to mention it is clearly shown to be otherwise in the Bible. 1 Peter 3 and 4 contain clear passages of Jesus’s activities after death that should remove all doubt as to whether post-mortem changes or repentance are possible. </div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">Then we have the idea of a “free gift.” This is true grace, my friends: a free gift. Paul contrasts Adam and Christ to illustrate this in Romans 5. Verse 15 states: “But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died through the one man’s trespass, much more surely have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abounded for the many.” (NRSV translation) Here Paul uses “the many,” in a clear parallel comparison to those (“the many”) who died as a result of Adam’s sin. This usage of “many” may be simply explained that all people had yet to be born and Paul was using the past tense. Additionally, “Adam,” is used to create an argument here, but since the Hebrew can refer to humans in general, one may interpret this as the disobedience of human beings, in general. In any case, the two groups refer to all people up to that point as “the many” in this case. Verse 18 is clearer and more all-encompassing with respect to time and so more clearly includes future events: “Therefore, just as one trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all.” </div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">In other words, the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life! For all people! Not just a few, but the many, multitudes, ALL people. Almost invariably, the hell-believing preachers are forced to add to what the Bible teaches by saying “but you have to take the free gift…you have to reach out and take it, and you can do that today, by coming forward, and publicly accepting Christ as Savior,” or something to that effect. My friends, there are no conditions here like that. Christ said “It is finished!” He has defeated the powers of sin and death and there will be justification and life for ALL! The free gift is yours, mine, everybody's, because God is love and God is awesome!!</div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"> </div><div class="MsoNormal">There is nothing in the Bible that says repentance and change are impossible after death, as we saw in 1 Peter 3 and 4 . In fact, Jesus’s answer to the disciples’ question in Mark 10:26: “who then can be saved?” was cryptic, but encouraging and unlimited in its scope: “…With God ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE,” he answered. </div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"> </div><div class="MsoNormal">God desires all mankind to be saved according to 1 Timothy 2:4. Do we doubt that God has the power to accomplish his will. Are we so stubborn as to believe an absurdity like God will allow people to choose everlasting torture if that is what they want because he is “all-loving”? Who would want or choose that?! Is that really “all-loving?” No-one in their right mind would choose to be tormented forever (and probably no-one not in their “right mind” either); still for free will to be truly free will, someone needs to be in their right mind and have knowledge of what they are choosing. People on earth today and through the ages have not had this knowledge! </div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">Be that as it may, in any case, I say, God gets what he wants and his will is going to be done, whether fire and brimstone believers like it or not! They will like it ultimately, I hope! No-one languishes in the pit forever, but the purifying fire of God will “burn” away impurities and whatever is false and evil within each person, until with clear vision and clear consciences “every” knee will bow in Philippians Chapter 2. There is, truthfully, some good in all people. This is true even among the most obviously evil people in history. Each person’s illusions and delusions and evil of all sorts will have been “burned” away and all God’s children, all people, will dwell forever with him, fully restored, enjoying the truly free gift, as the Bible promises. <br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">God bless,</div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">David <br />
</div>Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-79220160245238617982011-07-03T15:00:00.000-07:002011-07-03T15:02:06.576-07:00Actions over Beliefs<div class="MsoNormal">What is our image of God? What do we think he is like? For the Christian, this important question is something we should spend time on by reading and studying about the life of Christ. Theologians debate the nature of the incarnation of God in Christ, the Trinity, how Jesus could have been fully God and fully man at the same time, and so on. This can get very complicated and it seems there is going to be no complete agreement on this or any number of other topics in this lifetime. But most Christians would agree that God was in Jesus and if we want to know what God is really like and what he cares about then we should look at how Jesus lived. Then, what is important is to follow his example and to obey his commands to love God and neighbor. </div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">If we look at the life of Christ and somehow see him going door to door preaching to people that they must believe certain things about him or be tormented forever, then that would be the way believers might legitimately act in following him. But clearly, Jesus did not do this. In fact, recall Jesus forbidding people and/or “evil spirits” to even say who he was? His message and parables are full of lessons on what God is passionate about. His life is an example of how people should strive to bring about the kingdom of God (not meaning the afterlife, primarily, here) on earth as well. So we have the prayer “your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.” And so it shall be. The way to do this, as Jesus showed, was non-violent, yet passively resisting the kingdoms of this world – that would have been the Roman Empire at this time, and those collaborators with Rome among the Jewish elite, the very wealthy. Instead of taking care of the poor and working for justice in the world, the rich and powerful became more so, unjustly, at the expense of the poor. </div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">No wonder Jesus’s followers wanted him to exact justice against their rich oppressors. But violence generally begets more violence and the kingdom of God is above that. It wasn’t an option, ever, that Jesus even considered. Jesus considered this to be “satanic” even. Jesus counseled and lived out service and non-violent resistance then, to the end. He told us to love our enemies, even. That’s what God is like. The kingdom of God (and the healing, justice, compassion Jesus demonstrated that goes along with it) was a threat in the minds of the Jewish elite—Jesus was winning over the multitudes—who convinced the Romans ultimately to have Jesus killed to preserve their positions as elite and favored by Rome. </div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">The crowds in the Gospels were clearly for Jesus, but they would on occasion demonstrate to him that they would have him be king “by force,” which would have caused him to appear or be the same, essentially, as the kings or “Caesars” in the kingdoms of the world. They wanted Jesus to crush the enemy, by force! This partly explains why he would hide himself or go away at times. The way of force would wind up with just more of the same with the Jews exacting bloody vengeance on their oppressors. We’ve seen this back and forth in history…think of Yugoslavia as one prime example of this. </div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">And so the week Jesus was killed we see him riding in humility on a donkey, no less, while the Romans marched in from the other side with swords, armor, horses and so forth to give some additional security during this period when thousands of Jews would be flocking in to Jerusalem. They were ready to put down any troublemakers, by force. Clearly, this is not the way God works—by force and violence and coercion. </div><div class="MsoNormal">However, after Jesus’s death, after he sacrificed his own life, many of the Jews chose the path of violence and rose up against Rome. After much bloodshed and thousands of crucifixions, they ended up completely crushed and Jerusalem was sacked, the temple destroyed, as Jesus said it would be. Later, with the marriage of the church and the Roman Empire, we saw the beginnings of corruption, violence – the opposite of the kingdom of God working its might against enemies. Christians began to persecute each other. Heretics were hunted and their books burned. And so we saw the working out of the doctrine of eternal, everlasting torment by the early Latin theologians, Augustine in particular. Before Augustine, Tertullian also believed this, but he was in the minority. </div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">The authorities realized, of course, that such a doctrine was fear-based and that fear is a fairly good (I should say “effective”) way to control human beings. All who would not submit to certain beliefs about God would be forcefully crushed and tormented for all eternity. Enter the Dark Ages, inquisitions, bloody wars, crusades, tortures, burnings, drownings, and worse. The heretics were going to be crushed by God and/or Jesus and so the worldly church would send them on their way with a taste of the everlasting torments to come. What a total and complete opposite of what Jesus lived and taught!! This “you are headed for everlasting torment if you don’t believe such and such” fear-based traditional religion is STILL preached and taught in way too many churches throughout this land today. </div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">Can you imagine Jesus torturing anyone? How about Pilate, or Herod Antipas, or perhaps those who were flogging the daylights out of him in preparation to kill him? Wouldn’t that have been the time to show them what God is really like – kill them all, torture them, whatever? No, he didn’t do that…rather, he forgave them from the cross. The agony of death on a cross he submitted to instead of yielding to the temptation to operate as the world systems operate, by force. Now remember James and John wanting to strike down Samaria and Jesus rebuking them for it. Or Peter rebuking Jesus, or chopping off a man’s ear with a sword. Jesus was not pleased. Violence, according to Jesus, is not the way to get someone to believe or obey from the heart; nor is it the way to treat someone who doesn’t happen to believe as you or I do. Do we actually think that Jesus is going to do an about-face and come back for some serious revenge? Justice? Yes. Revenge? No. He told us to forgive not seven times but seventy times seven – in other words, do not EVER stop forgiving. </div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">Therefore, justice will demand that punishments fit crimes. This will be done perfectly, since God is perfect. It certainly was not done in the Roman Empire, with crucifixions being administered to any who opposed them as an example of what happened to the disloyal. In fact, no society has gotten it perfect, not one. But God’s justice must be perfect and so it boils down to a matter of trusting God to take care of everyone with compassion and mercy depending upon each person’s circumstance. It’s most definitely not going to be a lining up of those who accepted Christ as Lord and Savior in this life on one side, and all others on the other side, followed by a sweeping of the unbelievers into everlasting damnation to no purpose except bloodthirsty wrath. Believe that and you are buying into the theology invented by the kingdom of this world, not the kingdom of God. </div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">We are told that humans are in a condition of sin; in other words, we are born flawed. Surely this will be taken into consideration. Romans 11:32 tells us that God, in fact, has “bound” or kept people in this state for the express purpose of having mercy on everyone! Then, life will be abundant for all, there will be enough to eat for everyone, and no more sickness, death, jealousy over another man’s wife, murders, etc. etc. because the evil systems of wealth and power will be no more and all will be satisfied and reconciled to God. There will be no more addictions because God will satisfy every need with more than anyone can ask or imagine.</div><div class="MsoNormal">In the meantime, our mission is to obey with the knowledge that we have. This means to follow Jesus in helping to bring about a more just world; at least it means to strive to bring about the kingdom of God on earth by helping those in need and obeying commands to love God and love neighbor by our actions toward them. We really need to rid ourselves this “you must believe this or that or be damned” doctrine and go out and help someone today, each day. If Christians did this more, instead of going around trying to convert everyone to a set of beliefs, then this would be a major step in the right direction. Things are looking up. Yes, if you’re in a fundamentalist-type church, they’ll shun you as an apostate, de-friend you, backstab you, and more. So be it! That is their image of God and they have grown into it. </div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">Keep on following Jesus in spite of them, forgive them, move on even as they may reject you, and do as much good as you can (a rough quote from John Wesley) to as many people as you can, wherever you can, for as long as you ever can. Do this, and you will truly be growing into the image of God, whose mercy and compassion never ends. Yes, his mercy endures forever!! (Psalm 136, repeat over and over). Thank God for Jesus, who showed us that God is not a vicious being, but one who loves all his children and has all the time in the universe to transform them into all they can be. It’s a privilege to be able to help and serve others, as this is what Jesus would have us do – it’s what he did, and when you run into the powers of the world, don’t let them turn you into one of them! They’re in God’s merciful hands. Trust him with everything. And do not be afraid!! Jesus will take care of you and all your loved ones in his true, infinite grace. What you have in many churches today, including those with “grace” in their name even, is not really grace – it is conditional grace. And <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">conditional grace is no grace at all</b>. It's an oxymoron.<br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">God bless,</div><div class="MsoNormal">David </div>Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com7tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-73456681999647203982011-06-19T15:28:00.000-07:002011-06-19T15:30:41.652-07:00Happy Father's Day! Let's Just Rest Awhile<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-outline-level: 6;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;">John 12:32 - "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” - Jesus <br />
<br />
Matt 11:28 - "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest."<br />
<br />
Everyone loves the Matthew passage! Not everyone, of course, accepts the John passage. But isn't that glorious? Eventually, all people come to Jesus and (perhaps after some celestial spankings are administered, but they will come, every knee will bow! Check out Philippians 2)…all people will find rest for their souls. God is good, all the time!! I believe it! </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-outline-level: 6;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;">Somehow when we used to sing that in my former church I would look around and see people who were strong believers in the hideous doctrine of eternal torment singing this song so joyfully. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-outline-level: 6;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;">I was thinking, how in the world can they sing and believe these words if God is going to torment some of their friends and loved ones - forever!! It's just stupefying, really. I realize they probably were singing that thinking God is good by saving THEM and really believed that eternal torment for unbelievers is just, simply because they think God says it is. But he doesn't, and it isn't! God gave us our brains, and common sense should be enough to tell us that eternal, everlasting retributive punishment is no justice for any crime. The injustice of such a punishment is comparable to administering the death penalty for a person doing 58 miles an hour in a 55 zone, really, but much, much worse if someone really thinks about it. Please think about it and let’s do our part in spreading the glorious news that God really is good, all the time, punishments will be truly just, and he will indeed draw all men (all people, that is), to himself. His mercy knows no bounds. It lasts forever! </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-outline-level: 6;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;">I thank God so much for that, for being the truly merciful and kind God he is. And as I see the truly good news of universal (ultimately) restoration of all things which includes all people, of course, it fills me with a great joy. No wonder Paul could spontaneously erupt into praises to God. I think Paul knew or received the revelation and although (as Peter probably tells us in his disputed 2<sup>nd</sup> epistle – disputed or not, the statement is true!) he is sometimes difficult to understand, one can definitely see that there is tremendous, overwhelming support for this good news that it just makes me want to go out and serve him with all my might!!... After a short nap, that is...I'm a little lazy sometimes, at least in my own mind - I'll admit it.</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-outline-level: 6;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;">Sleep is a really wonderful gift from God though; there is nothing wrong with a nice snooze. Sometimes we need to slow down, rest, and just realize that all is well and all will be well. We are overworked and need to rest. I can see why God made a Sabbath day. Never mind the literature the Seventh Day Adventists drop on my front porch when I run my weed-eater on Saturday! The point is, we need to take some time and just rest in the Lord every week or we are going to burn out. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-outline-level: 6;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;">God bless! And Happy Father's Day! -David</span></div>Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-49539121211517740672011-06-11T10:20:00.000-07:002011-06-11T10:23:00.930-07:00Sin is Not Sin<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">One of the most frustratingly annoying statements that I used to hear repeated over and over again by Christians is this one: “Sin is Sin.” Even before I became a convinced believer in the truly good news that 95 percent of the human race is not going to be eternally tormented or annihilated, I would cringe as I heard that phrase repeated. Often I would feel an urge to speak up and would gently but very clearly say , “no, sin is NOT sin,” and then make the case. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Why isn’t this a valid statement? Because the statement in its clear meaning is that ALL SINS ARE CREATED EQUAL. Believers in eternal torment think God sends you to this “hell” forever because you disobeyed – no matter whether you stole a piece of candy, cursed at a rude driver and gave him the bird, or killed someone – and didn’t believe Jesus died for your sins prior to your death. You see, they have to maintain that “sin is sin” or else the doctrine of eternal torment goes down the drain. As it very well should! They would have to say that there will be different levels of punishments in this “lake of fire,” taken literally from the book of Revelation, if gradations of sin are admitted. For this reason, you’re going to hear a lot of silence if you challenge the statement “sin is sin.” </span></div><span style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif;"> </span><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">But sooner or later, someone will attempt to justify it. For many, they will resort to the old misuse of Isaiah 55 that tells us that Gods ways are higher than our ways (they use it to attempt to show that God is merciless and that this mercilessness is justice because God is smarter than we are), and some will even pull things out of the book of James, such as where he states in Chapter 2 verse 10 that a person who has failed at the law at one point is guilty of all! Really? Does this mean me having a lustful thought is the same as committing rape? I sure hope not. That’s not James’s point at all. The point is only that all have sinned, not that all people have sinned equally! </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">So, before the fulfillment of what God has promised concerning the universal salvation and mercy on every human being that he has created happens, it is clear from the Bible and common sense that there are different levels of sin. The Bible states even that punishments (and rewards) will be different in a number of cases. These are good to keep in mind when you hear that phrase “sin is sin” tossed around as if you are just as guilty as a serial murderer because you don’t happen to be a perfect person. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">I just want to give a couple examples to show gradations of sins in the Bible. First, in the parable in Luke 12, we read the conclusion in verses 47 and 48: “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.”</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">So then, the servant who did not know was not only beaten with few blows, the blows came to an end. The blows also came to an end for the servant who did know the master’s will! Eternal torment doctrine would have the servants both equally receiving blows, for no corrective purpose other than to satisfy God’s anger, forever! The blows would not be few or many, they would never end! Think about that. That’s utterly merciless. So this is one example of different levels of punishment. Bring this up in church and you’re going to get a lot of silence most likely before they change to a cherished passage that seems to teach eternal torment (but really doesn’t). Don’t let them get away with this!! Point out the gradations of punishments for gradations of sin, and that the punishments come to an end. Repeat until the point is hammered home.</span></div><span style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif;"> </span><br />
<div style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif; line-height: 115%; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Then, we have Jesus talking warning a couple cities in Matthew 11:21-24. Concerning the town of Capernaum (where they tried to toss Jesus off a cliff), he says: “And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades.<sup> </sup> For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Now, a big mistake I believe people make in coming up with the doctrine of eternal torment is to take Jesus literally, especially when he’s giving warnings and so forth. But what does this passage mean? One thing that can be said for certain is that Jesus is saying that in some sense, the city of Sodom is going to have an easier time of it at the judgment day than Capernaum is! Without getting too much into the why or how, the point is, Sodom was considered and still is, the epitome of evil! It was destroyed by “eternal fire” according to Jude. (Note: where is that fire now? “Eternal” fire should still be burning according to eternal torment doctrine). </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Now we see different levels of punishment being taught again, by Jesus. Sodom gets an easier time of it than Capernaum does. It’s not equal. Sin is not sin here. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">But other than being an evil city, what else has been said about Sodom later on in the Old Testament? This is a really amazing part that a lot of people might skip over because Ezekiel isn’t the most exciting of books to read. But what it says is that GOD IS GOING TO RESTORE SODOM, and not only that, he is going to restore Israel (who he says committed sins that were “more vile” than the sins of Sodom and Samaria). So here we see clearly that some sins are more vile than others, the phrase “sin is sin” is once again just flat wrong. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Here is this final passage showing differing levels of sin, which also shows how God will ultimately restore all of these places. Just to make it clear, there is clearly going to be some pain, in this life or the next for sins. But to say all sins are equal, and all sins warrant the sending of a person to be eternally tormented is irrational, unbiblical, and just a monstrous lie that people often are made to believe. If a person questions this, their fellow church-members might start giving them strange looks at church, wondering if they are straying from the faith. They might even be questioned as to what they believe about Jesus and the Trinity to test and see if they are really Christians or not. What a brainwashing people are given on Sundays in many churches today!!</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">To sum this up, here is the passage of restoration from Ezekiel 16, verses 52 – 53. At first, Ezekiel is speaking for God in warning the remaining kingdom of Judah (Israel, the northern kingdom with its capital at Samaria had been virtually destroyed by Assyria already) </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><sup><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">52</span></sup><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"> Bear your disgrace, for you have furnished some justification for your sisters. <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">Because your sins were more vile than theirs</b>, they appear more righteous than you. So then, be ashamed and bear your disgrace, for you have made your sisters appear righteous. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"><span style="font-size: large;"><sup>53 </sup></span>“‘However, <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">I will restore the fortunes of Sodom</b> and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">, and your fortunes along with them….”</b></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">So in verse 52, Ezekiel says that Judah’s sins are greater than Israel’s were, and so Israel had been made to “appear righteous” since Judah’s sins were so much more heinous, evidently.</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">But then, check out the shocker in verse 53! God says<b> he will restore SODOM</b> (and her daughters – as in, the cities like Gomorrah around there that were probably wiped out in an eruption or whatever constituted the “eternal fire”). Note that this has not happened yet. Sodom is thought to have been in the general area of the southern Dead Sea. Then, Israel is to be restored as well, Ezekiel says, and “your fortunes along with them,” meaning the kingdom of Judah which had been divided after King Solomon’s sons bickered over some internal political issues. Anyway, we see the restoration of EVERYTHING here after whatever judgment and punishments are meted out for the sins of these nations and their people. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">And so, there are many different levels of sin. Punishments will be perfectly just. Some are promised to be painful, whether in this life or the next. Stealing a piece of candy – slap on the wrist. Harm someone, a child perhaps in some way? I would expect some serious and very painful punishment, perfectly just, but not merciless. There are Bible passages to back that up but I won’t give examples unless someone would like them. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Eventually, all will be restored. It might take a long time for some! (Romans 11:32 is but one of many, but particularly clear passages telling us the grand purpose of God: <sup>“</sup>For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.” The ULTIMATE purpose is that God may have mercy on ALL!! That’s everyone. That is the gospel, folks, not: did you make Jesus your personal Savior before you died? (never mind if you grew up in Burma or the Congo or wherever) If not, you’re going to the same place Hitler and the Jews and the Devil is going where you will be tormented forever. That’s bad news, not good.</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">The good news is that God will eventually have mercy on all his creatures. We are told to try to be like God, who we see most clearly in Jesus, as believers. If we believe God will be merciless to some; well then, we are more likely to also not show mercy to certain people: homosexuals and people in other religions are special targets for many fundamentalist-type churches. The “sin is sin” mantra is used when it is convenient, but ignored when it is not. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">The truth is, sin is NOT sin. All sins are not equal by the Bible and the law of common sense! And, God is going to have mercy on all his creatures. THAT is the good news. Jesus is the Savior of the whole world, not just a few. So, love wins and God is not defeated by anything. If most people go to hell forever, God as the heavenly parent of all (Acts 17 states we are all God’s children), seriously loses. Folks, God doesn’t lose. He loves us, all his children. Think of those parables where God doesn’t rest until he finds the last sheep, or the lost penny. He’s the Savior of everyone! </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">God bless,</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">David</span></div>Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-44811240911209656772011-05-27T19:42:00.000-07:002011-05-27T19:42:09.772-07:00Is God a Malevolent Serial Torturer?<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/> <w:DontFlipMirrorIndents/> <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true"
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</style> <![endif]--> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">I had a feeling I was heading for a bit of trouble when the question read as follows:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>“Melchizadek was, like Christ, an eternal priest.”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>True or False? <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I answered “false” and got it wrong. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I made a mild protest over that one. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I lost. It turns out the Professor in charge of the New Testament Bible Studies curriculum and the test writer was the same one who attempted to have me expelled from seminary during a class on how to interpret the Bible. Interpret literally, whenever possible, was what he taught us.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The reason for his attempt to have me expelled was for not acknowledging that God would send any of his children to eternal torment, with no hope for escape ever, as a “just” payment for sins. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I argued in a forum designed for debating issues that eternal torment was not justice, not for anything done in a short lifetime and backed it up with scriptures, logic and plenty of real life examples and scenarios.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"><span> </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Now this Professor knew all about Melchizadek; he was an “expert” on the book of Hebrews and took it all literally.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Advice:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>watch out for people who can tell you all about Melchizadek!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Anyway, if you were to put hard questions to this Professor on anything, even politely, he would become somewhat belligerent, acting as if the person questioning needed to be quiet and learn the material.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But if he perceived that you had bested him in any exchange, then he would put you up for disciplinary action for disrespect.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> One wasn't allowed to best the big man in any debate or exchange! </span>I wasn’t the only one, that’s for sure.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>A lot of those students were a tad smarter than me, and better debaters.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Some would buckle a little easier though, on occasion, and apologize.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Others would just stop debating.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And others would continue, fearlessly, and some did pay the price for “crossing the line.”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But it’s not about that.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>In any case, I believe God saw to it that the dean saw things my way when he refused to expel me.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>From his personal response to me it seemed he was a closet Christian Universalist even!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But, alas, his job was at stake and to admit that would leave him unemployed.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Months later, the Professor was still seething with rage that I wasn’t expelled.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I have his email response to a question I put to him about an upcoming class and it’s nasty.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It seems this man resembles the god that he serves.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Now I’m not judging him.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Judging means condemning someone to eternal torment and that’s exactly what millions of church folks implicitly do when they let that doctrine go unchallenged or outright support it, especially.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">I suppose me not letting this New Testament Professor walk all over me with all his 350 pounds of doctorate bulk might have had something to do with his failed attempt to expel me.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Would the Christian thing to do have been to silently let him fill our heads with nonsense?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>No, I don’t think so.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>There is a time to speak up without fear of the consequences a human can deal to us, even if the hammer is going to potentially seriously drop.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It is my belief that the time to speak up is when people attempt to brainwash you with a view of God as cruel, vicious, vindictive and so bloodthirsty that his wrath will never be satisfied forever and ever.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>In any case, this Professor attempted to force me acknowledge the Bible taught eternal torment.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>He asked me to substitute the word “hell” for “death” in Romans 6:23, meaning eternal torment.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The reason being was, in his mind, that if God sentences a human to eternal torment then it must be just.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Whether it said death or hell or torture or anything didn’t matter to him.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Why?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Because he is God, that’s why.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If God says something is just, it must be just.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Just like that.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I refused.</span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Didn’t Paul tell us to “test everything” and “hold onto what is good?”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>What is good about everlasting torment?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Dump the doctrine, I say, and rejoice in the merciful arms of the Lord as we know he welcomes all his children home – sooner or later.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Sometimes it might be a lot later!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>That’s up to God.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Punishments all must have a purpose or they are cruelty.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>That purpose cannot be revenge either.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I think even my dog understands this.</span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Isn’t God more merciful than human beings?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Isn’t it actually human beings who have done relatively merciless things (maybe not approaching the horror of everlasting torture) and then on occasion attributed them to God?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>“Kill them all!”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>(said God)<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But did God really say this?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>“Save the virgins for yourselves,” saith the Lord.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Did God really say that? <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Or did humans say that God told them to do it.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I wasn’t there, but that sounds like human sinfulness in war and brings to mind more recent events such as the rape of Nanking.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Did God tell the Japanese troops to do that to the Chinese civilians of Nanking?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If you are brave and have a strong stomach, just google that one for a seriously bloodcurdling account of human evil.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I’ve had people in church tell me of the genocides in the Old Testament:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>“yep, that was a brutal time…brutal!”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And some of them have a little twinkle in their eye, a knowing security that they are the chosen and will never be on the receiving end of any stripes or any fire like the non-elect.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Anyway, just because something happened 3000 years ago in a brutal time period doesn’t lessen the horror of it at all.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Thanks be to God I don’t have to believe the accounts of slaughter in Numbers, Joshua, and Judges were commanded by God.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If someone else wants to believe this then that’s fine, but we’re talking about the God of the universe here, commanding puny humans to stab and slaughter each other and demanding all kinds of things be killed.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Let the blood flow!!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>What insanity is that!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It leads to our view of God though.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Is God benevolent?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Is God love, as the Bible testifies?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Did Jesus show us what God is like?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Did he go around telling the Jews to slaughter every Roman in sight?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Couldn’t he have?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Maybe that would be a little more justified than the slaughter of the Canaanites who had never lifted a finger against the invading Hebrew hordes, wouldn’t it?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If God wanted to give them the land, why couldn’t he take the mighty hand of God and thrust them out of the land to live in peace instead of all that gore?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Slay them!!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>What a load we’ve been fed to imagine that the Lord Jesus was behind any of this slaughter and killing.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">And now let’s return to consider the even worse fate of eternal torment.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Let’s try to think of one man who might sentence his children to everlasting torture to no purpose.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Imagine this man is invisible.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>One day, he appears to his children who didn’t believe in him because they couldn’t see him so he impales each one with a pitchfork.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But you see, this man is an immortal, powerful magician and has the power to keep his children alive so they can suffer and not die.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>For not believing in him, this man allows his children to writhe on the pitchforks for days.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Days turn into months.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Months into years.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The pain never ends and the man is never satisfied that the punishment is enough, that justice has been fulfilled.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Since he is smarter and more powerful, this action of his must be correct and it must be accepted.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">This is pretty similar to the satanic doctrine of eternal torment.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Maybe someone who would actually do this, if he had the power would be an insane serial killer?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Perhaps someone like John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Or the Green River Killer.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But what’s striking there is even these evil murderers eventually put their victims out of their misery.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The Green River Killer even said “I didn’t torture ‘em.” <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The BTK killer talked of “putting his victims down” after he had punished them for a time.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Terrible, terrible, heinously evil acts these men did.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But their victims are suffering no more.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The Nazis put the Jews in ovens, experimented on them and so forth, often in agonizing ways.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But their suffering is thankfully over.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Or…is it?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>According to the doctrine of eternal torment, the victims may have never believed in Jesus for some reason or another.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The Jews horribly massacred by the millions in the holocaust certainly didn’t – at least, the vast majority.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Maybe other people who were victims of killers were abused, weren’t born in the right neighborhood or any number of understandable reasons.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If that was the case, those victims of the killers are looking forward to a much worse fate: <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>torture that NEVER ENDS!!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>No rest, day or night – Revelation is taken literally.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Tossed alive into a lake where they can burn and experience the anguish of burning, but not ever have it relieved, ever!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Can anyone really, truly believe this without putting up a huge wall in their brain blocking out how horrific this insane doctrine really is?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And people go and sing praises to this being on Sunday?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>What’s wrong with this picture?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span> </span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">What is wrong is the doctrine of eternal conscious torment.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> It's wrong because it maligns the nature of God and prevents people from coming to him. This prevents them from doing good works and following Jesus because they hate God. They reject the eternal torturer, understandably! Marx, Lenin, and Friedrich Nietzsche all said that they rejected the Christian God because of the doctrine of hell. Think of the horrific influence these men have had on millions of people. Even if not directly responsible, Lenin led to Stalin and Stalin bears responsibility for the deaths of millions of people. The doctrine is satanic and the fruit it has borne, for one, was Joseph Stalin.</span></span></div><br />
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Thank God that he is not a malevolent divine serial torturer.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If he were, we would ALL be in big trouble!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>God is not a demon from the pits of “hell.”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>That is utterly unthinkable.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And thank God, it is not true.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>God is LOVE.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Believe it!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Therefore, we’re ALL in for a royal, wonderful surprise because our God is benevolent and he is awesome, all-powerful and all-loving.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It is true that we sometimes create our own bit of hell on earth sometimes and this is designed to strengthen us spiritually.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It may also serve to make us all the more appreciative of the infinite mercy of God and the eternal life that he has in store for ALL his creatures after a life of sickness, turmoil or other heavy burden is ended.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>God will have all men be saved, Paul says to Timothy.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Romans 5 uses an exact parallel to describe how what “Adam” (that is, sin) does is reversed by Christ. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And to a much greater degree! <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"><span> </span>For those of us who think of persons who have done great evil in this life, God does promise justice will be meted out, but the punishment will fit the crime.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I can think of no crime that would warrant eternal conscious torment.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Maybe tormenting someone for all eternity.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>That might warrant eternal conscious torment, in which case that god would go off the high dive (picture that in a Chick tract) into the lake of fire himself.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>One last thought – if the punishment for sin is eternal conscious torment, and Jesus had to suffer the due punishment – why is Jesus not writhing about in the flames even as we speak?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>He would have to, if that were the just penalty.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Of course, there’s nothing just about eternal conscious torment.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>We need not fear any of our loved ones are being tormented by God.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Instead, they are in his care and we can trust him because he is merciful and kind.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span> <br />
<div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Be not afraid, says Jesus, it is I – I am always with you!!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>We can all rest in this knowledge.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This is one reason to share this truly good news.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It can remove all that horrible anxiety and depression people might have, thinking about the fate of “lost” loved ones. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Remember, God loves those people and he is going to take care of them and do what is best for them because they are his children.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>God, being the perfect parent, will see to it that they receive fair and merciful treatment designed for their benefit until they come back home and he comes running to them with arms wide open like the Father in the prodigal son parable.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>May we not be like the eldest son in that parable, annoyed that God is merciful and infinitely forgiving!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Even with the eldest son sulking, the Father said to him:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>“everything I have is yours!”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">God bless!</span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">David <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div>Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-34283941172692831202011-05-14T20:14:00.000-07:002011-05-15T11:06:47.705-07:00Hope for All, Even for Those Without Hope!<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;">Greetings Everyone!</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;">Today what has been on my mind is the word “hope.” Specifically, what has been going over in my mind are verses like 1 Thessalonians 4:13, where Paul writes: “…we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.” (New Revised Standard Version/NRSV)</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;">Verses like this can be incredibly misleading. The difference is between objective hope and subjective hope. Let’s imagine people who do not believe something wonderful is going to come to pass (e.g. they don’t believe God will have mercy on all people, as he has promised in Romans 11:32; their loved ones, they believe, who have passed away are just ‘no more’) or let’s imagine people who believe something terrible is looming (e.g. eternal torment) – in both these cases these people do not have <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">subjective</i> hope (at least for others…they may have it for themselves). In light of this example, Paul wanted the believers to not grieve about those who died (surely not all of their relatives were believers)…he wanted them to have subjective hope in objective reality: that is, Jesus is going to take care of those folks, being the Savior of the world. That’s why he came! </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;">As for those “others,” (the unbelievers) let’s go on to see that the very wonderful thing <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">that they never had even hoped for </i>(“they had no hope”), did, in fact happen. God did (and he will) have mercy on all, as he has promised. In this case, <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">all along they had objective hope, </b>but grieved because they didn’t have subjective hope. So to sum it up, Paul is saying that for those that do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world--those that do not believe that he will, in fact, take care of a person’s loved one, how can they possibly have that hope within themselves? And yet, when God does treat the loved one fairly and with mercy, this shows that <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">there was hope for that person all along and for the loved one</i>, but the one who did not believe simply did not <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">have</i> that hope. So to say “they had no hope” is NOT the same as saying “there is no hope for them” or “there is no hope for their loved ones who have passed.” </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;">As an example, before Paul had his vision on the road to Damascus, he was Saul, and did not have subjective hope. But destiny would have it that all along, <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">even when he had no subjective hope</i>, he did, in fact, have objective hope! And so it is for all of God’s creatures. This may be one valid explanation for the conclusion of 1 Timothy 4:10: “…<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.</b>” I cannot even express how supporters of the doctrine of a God who eternally torments his own creatures either dodge this verse entirely or desperately wish it wasn’t in their Bibles. But it is! And it ruins their theology of eternal torment when it says so clearly that God is the Savior of all people. What makes sense is that the word “hope” is right in the verse, and so those who have this subjective (and objective!) hope are spared from subjective despair (NOT objective if God is the Savior of all people!) at the loss of loved ones. God saves the believer in his amazing grace from despair and other anxieties, due to the believer’s possession of this hope NOW. This would warrant the word “especially,” I believe. The word “exclusively” is not an option in any translation. The King James goes with “specially.” Ask eternal torment folks about 1 Timothy 4:10, not in a mocking way, but really ask them to explain what it means to them. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;">In passages like 1 Thessalonians 4:13, you may have someone point to this and try to rob you of you hope for the salvation of all mankind. They may say something like: “oh, you see there! There’s no hope for those people,” and sincerely mourn this fact. We’ve already shown that not having hope is not the same as there not being hope. I know very few Christians (they are out there though!) who actually say this with a sort of glee. This is a terrible sickness of the spirit, that one day will be purged by a metaphorical fire. As Mark 9:49 tells us, we ALL get some fire! I can’t stress that enough. I mentioned this to an eternal hell believer and he just shrugged and said basically “I don’t know what that fire is, but I know it’s not hellfire.” This is right after those verses in Mark 9 about immortal worms and unquenchable fire! That, said the man I was debating, definitely was hellfire. I don’t believe this man was cruel or gleeful, but brainwashed. The good news just couldn’t possibly be THAT good, could it? Yes, my friends, it can, because our God is THAT awesome! He is, indeed, the Savior of the entire world.</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> When people realize that God will exact perfect justice but ultimately reconcile all his creatures to himself (Colossians 1:20 reads: “and through him <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><u>God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things</u></b>, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of his cross”), including “lost” loved ones, then we really and truly are filled with an unspeakable joy. It’s a little ironic then, that believers in eternal torment today (which was not anywhere close to being the majority doctrine of the early church), have been robbed of this hope that Paul says that they are supposed to have in 1 Thessalonians 4:13…that is, unless ALL of their loved ones believed or “got saved” in their short life. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;">What a destructive doctrine – eternal torment in hell. No hope, no mercy. Is that justice? I had a wonderful man at my former church who told me with tears in his eyes how his family was not saved, but he still accepted the doctrine of eternal torment and said that we would not care after death because we would be so close to God after death! Now, if I believed God was going to eternally torture any of my relatives, he wouldn’t be a being worthy of worship. I don’t think I’d want to get very close to him at all! Rather, he would be a malevolent being, a sadistic rejected loser taking out his wrath, forever and ever, on his own creatures, his own children – many of our loved ones. (Acts 17:28-29 clearly tells us who God’s children are: ALL of humankind…this is Paul giving a sermon to the Greeks in Athens). He is trying to convince them that there IS hope. That’s the message for everyone: even if we have no hope, there is still hope for us! Why? Because God is not a monster, God is love, and God is the Savior of all people. We all have a lot to look forward to. There is hope for all because His mercy endures forever!</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;">God bless,</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt;">David</span></div>Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-36805676349315236452011-04-30T19:18:00.000-07:002011-04-30T19:18:43.942-07:00UNMC Visit and a "Parking Ticket" from Family Radio<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/> <w:DontFlipMirrorIndents/> <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true"
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</style> <![endif]--> <div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";">Well, better late than never!<span> </span>I hope you all had a wonderful Easter, wherever you were at.<span> </span>As planned, I went to the historic Universalist National Memorial Service in Washington D.C. <span> </span>The whole experience was just fantastic.<span> </span>The greeter at the door was a kind man with whom I enjoyed speaking for a few minutes before the service.<span> </span>Soon there entered a very nice lady who seemed genuinely interested in talking to me and welcomed me heartily to the service as well.<span> </span>I had the chance to speak with a couple other nice folks before and after the service as well.<span> </span>The service itself was really pleasant and I felt completely at ease, something I can’t say for every church I visit! <span> </span>I never got the slightest feeling that I was being pressured or scrutinized. <span> </span>It was the pastor’s final sermon there and I felt privileged to be able to attend this church with the wonderful people there and hear her final message to this group of folks.<span> </span><span> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";">Then, as I was driving home, I noticed a leaflet tucked snugly into my wiper blade.<span> </span>At first I thought it was a ticket for parking in a questionable area.<span> </span>When I arrived home I plucked it out of my windshield wiper and was intrigued and slightly amused to read that the end of the world was going to happen very soon, apparently.<span> </span>The title said “Holy God will bring judgment day on May 21, 2011.”<span> </span>I read the back and saw that the leaflet was produced by Family Radio!<span> </span>Anyone scared yet?<span> </span>I began to read.<span> </span>In one short paragraph, I read the words “Holy God” three times.<span> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";">Throughout the leaflet, God was consistently called “Holy God” over and over again.<span> </span><span> </span>The Great Flood, “by careful study” happened, per the pamphlet, in 4990 B.C.<span> </span>Then, some numbers that people might be likely to ignore out of sheer boredom are manipulated to come up with a date for Judgment Day!<span> </span>This is really unconscionable. <span> </span>The leaflet struck me as actually bordering on being venomous; it reminded me just a little bit of Chick tracts (truly venomous!), minus the comic illustration of a huge angel tossing live human beings into a burning pit to suffer forever.<span> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";">Anyway, the bottom line message was: “Holy God hates you!”<span> </span>I crumpled it up and threw it in the trash.<span> </span>Then I retrieved it just to serve as an example of how why our image of God matters so much.<span> </span>I can’t ever imagine myself loving “Holy God” as described in this leaflet.<span> </span>He’s waiting to torment his own creatures for all eternity!<span> </span>As Ellen White says somewhere about eternal torment:<span> </span>“O, dreadful blasphemy!”<span> </span>I’m no Seventh Day Adventist, but their stock went up considerably when I read that quote from their beloved founder and leader.<span> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";">In any case, this pamphlet was playing upon people’s fears: upon our realization that none of us are perfect before our Creator, an all-knowing being that has never made a mistake, knows everything about us, and (implied by this pamphlet) is VERY ANGRY with all of us!!<span> </span>But let’s take a step back into the wonderful reality for a moment and see how Jesus, the perfect manifestation of God here on earth treated imperfect people like us when he was on earth…prostitutes, lepers, outcasts.<span> </span>I’m repeating here, but this is so important that we strive to follow his example as best we can.<span> </span>He ate with hated people, drank with them, healed the sick and paralyzed people and liberally forgave them – <i>even when they did not ask for it</i>!<span> </span>And, we read of a good many religious leaders who scowled and seethed with hatred at him. <span> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";">Therefore, when we want to know what “Holy God” is really like, let us look to Jesus and read about how he treated people.<span> </span>Let us meditate on the parable of the lost sheep and those like it – how we are all God’s children (per Paul’s speech to the Greeks in Acts 17, and elsewhere) – and how the Shepherd will not rest until all his sheep come home.<span> </span>I believe the New Testament does clearly teach true justice.<span> </span>But the punishment must fit the crime!<span> </span>In Deuteronomy (25:1-3) even, the number of lashes a person could receive was limited to 40 and it was to be “according to his guilt!”<span> </span>This was a brutal period, and even here we see justice tempered with mercy.<span> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";">Nowhere in the leaflet is there anything said about how God is Love or how Jesus treated people.<span> </span>In fact, there’s virtually nothing at all in there about Jesus’ example and teachings to love one another and God (because he first loved us!).<span> </span>Rather, the leaflet is designed to scare the living daylights out of people with a guilty conscience or the gullible, perhaps, who have yet to subscribe to some formula that Family Radio has cooked up that you and I need to believe in in order to escape this judgment. <span> </span><span> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";">We know that God <i>will have</i> all people to be saved (1 Tim 2:4 – efforts to water down this verse don’t change the tremendous strength of the Greek verb there – see Gerry Beauchemin’s book <i>Hope Beyond Hell </i>or ask me for it and I’ll send you a free copy that details this); God is in charge of who gets saved of course; and we are told over and again that he will have mercy on ALL (Romans 11:32).<span> </span>1 Tim 4:10?<span> </span>Believe it! He really is the Savior of the whole world, not just the religious elite; and when he was on earth, he acted like it, by hanging around those who would be deemed by churches today to be “lost” or “damned forever”!<span> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";">Clearly there may be some pain to come, more or less.<span> </span>Mark 9:49 tells us EVERYONE will get some fire.<span> </span>We are all imperfect.<span> </span>But as we know, God’s mercy endures forever, mercy triumphs over judgment and his wrath lasts but a moment!! (Psalm 136, James 2:13,<span> </span>Lamentations 3:31-33)<span> </span>What a change this makes in our lives in how we look and treat others when we realize this truth. <span> </span>And thank God, this is the kind of God we serve – a God of mercy and love.<span> </span>Yes, God is Love! (1 John 4:8; 1 John 4:16) And I’ll end it with 1 John 4:18 <b>– “There is no <span>fear</span> in <span>love</span>; but perfect <span>love</span> <span>casts</span> out <span>fear</span>, because <span>fear</span> involves punishment, and the one who <span>fear</span>s is not perfected in <span>love</span>.”</b> Again, none of us are perfect, so there is bound to be some unhealthy fear and problems of all kinds in life associated with fears of all kinds.<span> </span>But we know that God is going to take care of us all, wipe away every tear and fear will be no more!!<span> </span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";">God bless!</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";">-David</span></div>Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-55005502845165835292011-04-23T11:16:00.000-07:002011-04-23T11:16:35.178-07:00April 23 UpdateGreetings Friends!<br />
<br />
Well, after a three-week bout with either a very bad cold or the flu I have that feeling of major gratitude for feeling healthy and motivated once again. This is just a short update to say I'm back (I was also in my home state of Oregon for a couple weeks with limited internet access) and ready to go! One thing that I am going to do is visit the Universalist National Memorial Church in Washington D.C. tomorrow. I will give an update of the service and my impressions sometime tomorrow evening most likely. <br />
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Next, I wanted to just make some comments on our attitudes and how we should strive to love others. I have said that I love a good debate, and I do. But sometimes these things just turn nasty and accomplish nothing. Sometimes the comments I see by Christian Universalists actually resemble those of Fundamentalists in the sense of: "we have the truth and you don't" as we then proceed to hammer people with why Christian Universalism is true. Now there is surely mixed motivation behind this. We want to be right. Everybody does. But if people looking in on these debates see things get mean-spirited or a lack of forgiveness and grace on our parts then they are likely just to chalk the truly good news up as "religion" and may tune out this wonderful truth: God is not a monster who will torture all who have not done, said, or believe certain things about him forever without mercy; rather, God is love and the Savior of the entire world and he wants the best for us! <br />
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What wonderful news that is! I just hope we maintain a spirit of understanding when dealing with all people, even those fundamentalists who may really irritate us. The majority of such folks are likely not going to change their minds - they are utterly convinced that they are right, they have the monopoly on the truth, and we (as well as most of the rest of the human race, all God's children) are heretical and dangerous, deceiving people into spending eternity in hell with no hope of escape. So, they have a terrible, warped view of God - I have said before that I believe it to be "satanic," in that only the most evil being imaginable would do something like that to his own creatures. And, there is the old saying that people tend to resemble the gods they serve. It's surprising how accurate that statement turns out to be oftentimes. We do not want to resemble <i>that </i>God by being unmerciful and downright mean.<br />
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The point of this is that in many cases we need to strive not to defeat this warped view of God by behaving as the fundamentalists do, but by actively striving to resemble the God that we serve, seen most perfectly in the life of Christ, healing people and helping people. We can do this not with the goal of getting them "saved" or to coerce a "sinner's prayer" out of them or any other kind of ulterior motive, but out of love. <br />
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It is true the fundamentalists are back on the attack. They have been put on the defensive by a wonderful book such as Rob Bell's <i>Love Wins</i>. We see brainwashed religious leaders such as John Piper effectively excommunicating Rob Bell and consigning him to the realm of apostates. Piper represents many people with hardened hearts to the true good news. That true good news is not Piper's bad news which is: "accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior or burn in hell for all of eternity," but that all people will receive the mercy of God, who loves each person he has created and wants us to grow in this love by practicing this love to our fellow creatures! So we don't necessarily have to sit back and let the fundamentalists beat us up, but let us not be unnecessarily argumentative and instead go out and DO acts of kindness and love. Think of the hours we might be spending online (I include myself here) debating with fundamentalists. Couldn't we take a few of those hours and go perform some acts of service to needy people? <br />
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You see, the battle has already been won. We don't have to convert the world to save them from the pit of an eternal hell. God is going to save all people ultimately. But it is wonderful to see people released from this view of God as a monster to be feared. Whether they admit it or not, people with this view of God as a being who created an eternal hell especially for sinful people to torment them - a God who is waiting for them to screw up and then to punish them instead of welcoming them with open arms - will generally spend an awful lot of time trying to make sure they are in the clear with him and it is awfully hard to genuinely love such a being or have a relationship to him like a brother or Father. <br />
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For those of us who have come to believe the truly news that God loves all people and not just the elect or chosen few it causes us to look at all people differently and not put us a spiritual cut above the "lost" or "sinners." Remember who Jesus spent the time with was sinners and that he generally lambasted religious fundamentalists more than anyone else. But this didn't keep him from healing, serving and loving his children. May we strive to do the same to people who need our help! <br />
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Thanks everyone, and I will have more information on upcoming meetings soon. There was a mention of this in the latest newsletter available at http://www.christianuniversalist.org and I will keep you posted! <br />
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Happy Easter!<br />
<br />
DavidRev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-78729198107829934672011-03-26T20:37:00.000-07:002011-03-26T20:39:18.544-07:00Phony Math: One Minute Equals Infinity?Greetings Friends,<br />
<br />
I love a good, healthy congenial debate as much as anyone. I think debate is vital to arriving at the truth. Sometimes it is difficult and we can come across as know-it-alls or as argumentative. I think I succeeded somewhat in doing this in the debate I'm about to describe, but it wasn't all bad. It was a learning experience. In my former church, I was asked the following question (after being lectured and then given a litany of King James passages by a lady who had been taught from a young age that eternal torture awaited all unbelievers) -- <b>"Do you believe that Hell exists? If so then why debate if it is a minute or eternity. Either one is too long." </b><br />
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Notice the tactic here. It's pretty common. She actually wants to debate, but really her side only. That's not the way it works! We need to listen to each other, and I think, ultimately, we did for the most part. She asked the question "why debate?" after having me listen to her make her case for eternal torment for a fairly good amount of time. This well-meaning (I think) lady proceeded to quote another Psalm or two with "hell" in it and a fear-based passage out of Deuteronomy, no less, striving to put a little fear into me, it would seem!<br />
<br />
It became very clear that she did not interpret "fear" as it should be interpreted in the Bible, which is a "reverence for" or something along those lines. I truly feel sorry for people who have this actual <i>fear</i> in the sense of dread, which is really a deep mistrust of God, as if he is just waiting to torture 99 percent of the human beings he created forever, without mercy! <b> Can someone really love or trust a being such as that? Does seeing this preached on the TV followed by a plea for money attract people to the faith? </b><br />
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Oh, what a different picture the Bible gives us in Jesus!! This is well-known, and I'm repeating, but it can hardly be said too many times that the harshest words Jesus had were for religious people, those who believed they were right and everyone else was wrong with God and doomed! I had a fellow tell me once that the Samaritan woman at the well in John Chapter 4 was "convicted." He repeated this four or five times as if that was all there was to it. I tried to get in a word or two. He said "she was convicted." This was my good friend who I did not want to argue with and so I changed the subject. But somehow he had crafted in his mind that Jesus just went around convicting people and condemning them. No, Jesus healed and treated people with<b> kindness and mercy. That's what God is like and we can trust him!</b> The Samaritan woman was, in those days, basically an "untouchable." Not only was she a hated Samaritan, but a woman, and for Jesus to speak to her was unthinkable! But that's what he did. He didn't rake her over the coals or judge her. Jesus brought joy to that Samaritan village! Just check out John 4 sometime if you don't believe me :) <u><b>They partied it up with Jesus in town.</b></u> The disciples were no doubt astounded, if not appalled, but this was Jesus here.<br />
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Now let's go back to that the lady from my former church and her statement here: one minute in "hell" is being essentially equated to of an infinite amount of time! Forever! This, my friends, is clearly irrational and demanded a response. Here is basically what I told her, and I do look back and think about how I could have maybe said things differently, but here it is:<br />
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<i><span style="font-size: small;">I suppose I do not believe fear should be the factor or the attractor to the faith. The motivation should be out of love and not fear. Perfect love cast out fear! Certainly I believe in a judgment, but I obviously object to something being infinite in duration when neither the Hebrew nor the Greek manuscripts support it. <b>One minute in hell is, by the law of common sense, far more merciful than infinity!</b> I just don't think some of us </span></i><span style="font-size: small;">(i.e. her)</span><i><span style="font-size: small;"> have thought about it enough and we are set in our ways. </span></i><span style="font-size: small;">(note: again, maybe I should have refrained from this veiled attack or put it differently somehow)</span><i><span style="font-size: small;"> There are clearly gradations of rewards and punishment in the Bible and to say all people - for example, Hitler and the Jews he had killed are all going to suffer equal infinite punishment is unthinkable by any reasonable standard of justice and we know God is more just and merciful than any man. </span></i><br />
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<i><span style="font-size: small;">So, yes, I believe there is a state in the afterlife where some will experience varying degrees of corrective punishment and if people want to use the English word "hell," then so be it. But the punishment, in order to be based on love, is a purifying judgment, like the hot coal that touched Isaiah's lips in Chapter 6. </span></i><span style="font-size: small;">(Note: in this passage Isaiah has a vision where he is transported to the very throne of God and feels bad about himself. <b> He sees an angel bring a BURNING COAL which PURIFIES his "unclean lips,"</b> as it is translated). </span><i><span style="font-size: small;"><br />
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If punishment has no purpose, I think we need to reflect on the reasons why God would do such a thing and make up our minds while taking a hard look at the original languages behind what has become translated into English. The Hebrew of Psalm 9:17 is "sheol," the abode of the dead. This is not the place where only the wicked go in the Old Testament, it is where everyone goes! Maybe you will not be convinced by this, but it needs to be said for the sake of the truth. Even my most fundamentalist of Professors in seminary would flat out admit that "hell" (as commonly thought of) is not a word in the Hebrew, nor was it even a concept held by the Jews of that time. To go back and translate it that way was one way the Roman Church maintained control over the masses. Thanks be to God for courageous men who stood up to the church, without fear, and helped change things. Otherwise, you might not have any option but the Roman Catholic Church even to this day! Thus, destructive doctrines must be opposed wherever they are found and at whatever cost. We owe it to God, whom we are to love also with all our minds to seek the truth and defend it!</span></i><br />
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I think my mention of the Reformation and a couple other statements in there may have hit a little harder than I wanted to, looking back, with her being a Baptist. But sometimes things need to be said when people engage us in debates, or the other way around. I look back on this and do not believe I did a particularly good job of being like Jesus there, but I'm a fallible human being and can learn from mistakes and some of the veiled attacks I made there to maybe be a little nicer. It depends on the person we're dealing with, of course. In any case, I thank God there are people who are standing up to the malicious doctrine of eternal conscious torment in hell.<br />
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For an example of a man who has stood up to this doctrine of a malevolent God for years with great courage, please check out Gary Amirault's Tentmaker website if you haven't already. I know many of you have. Here it is anyway:<br />
<a href="http://www.blogger.com/goog_905427870"><br />
</a><br />
<a href="http://www.tentmaker.org/">http://www.tentmaker.org/</a><br />
<br />
And, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask me and engage me at any time! I also invite you to check out more about the Christian Universalist Association to do more searching at:<br />
<a href="http://www.blogger.com/goog_905427876"><br />
</a><br />
<a href="http://www.christianuniversalist.org/">http://www.christianuniversalist.org/</a><br />
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God bless!<br />
DavidRev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-35503863876560587302011-03-25T20:41:00.000-07:002011-03-25T20:43:20.234-07:00Discoveries!Greetings Friends!<br />
<br />
First I wanted to share this link to Eric Stetson's article that addresses so well some of what has been on my mind recently:<br />
<a href="http://www.blogger.com/goog_2077967134"><br />
</a><br />
<a href="http://www.ericstetson.com/2011/03/the-unsung-heroes-of-christian-universalism/">http://www.ericstetson.com/2011/03/the-unsung-heroes-of-christian-universalism/</a><br />
<br />
I am truly grateful for Rob Bell's book, although as Eric points out, this has been written about a great deal recently and, in fact, was the predominant view of the early church. John Wesley Hanson has thoroughly documented this, for one, back in 1899. The book can be ordered or read for free at the following link:<br />
<a href="http://www.blogger.com/goog_2077967137"><br />
</a><br />
<a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=fzARAAAAYAAJ">http://books.google.com/books?id=fzARAAAAYAAJ</a><br />
<br />
I'm also very grateful to Scott Wells for posting a link to my blog on his very resource-rich and interesting blog at:<br />
<br />
<a href="http://boyinthebands.com/">http://boyinthebands.com/</a><br />
<br />
Also Naomi King's "The Wonderment," and "City of Refuge" blog (and others!) have been a blessing to me:<br />
<br />
<a href="http://thewonderment.typepad.com/the_wonderment/">http://thewonderment.typepad.com/the_wonderment/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.cityofrefugefl.com/">http://www.cityofrefugefl.com/</a><br />
<br />
Last but not least, thanks again my friend Chuck for sharing this blog on Facebook! What a discovery of honest writing and a story that hit me very close to home. I wrote to friends that reading Elizabeth here caused me a momentary twinge of unholy envy at her writing ability :) I would encourage you to go back into the archives and check out what else she has written. Prolific!! Thank you all. Here is the link to Elizabeth's story:<br />
<a href="http://www.blogger.com/goog_2077967145"><br />
</a><br />
<a href="http://ellisabethe.wordpress.com/about/">http://ellisabethe.wordpress.com/about/</a><br />
<br />
Thank you all, and God bless!Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-20027065345767703432011-03-19T21:49:00.000-07:002011-03-19T21:49:04.692-07:00Study Bibles?Greetings Friends!<br />
<br />
Back quite a few years ago, before I became a convinced universalist, I amassed quite a number of Bibles. I would say it was somewhat of an addiction. This included the Study Bibles. I picked up everything from the Harper-Collins Study Bible to the MacArthur Study Bible and just about everything in between! I joke, although it's pretty accurate, that when I want to find out what I do<b> not </b>believe on a particular issue, I reach for my MacArthur Study Bible! But what to do with it? - I'm sure not going to give that thing away to anyone with it consigning everyone to eternal conscious torment for infinity! <br />
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A quick side note on MacArthur: one fellow at my former church who opposed me when I was raising questions at a Bible Study on some pretty clear universalist-supporting passages loaned me a MacArthur book. I couldn't even finish it; the thing was just filled with venom! It was downright mean. This same fellow at church would also show Rob Bell videos at the Mens' Breakfasts. I hope now he reads <i>Love Wins</i> because I suspect deep down he was troubled by what he was essentially brainwashed into believing since he was a small boy. He needs someone he really looks up to like Rob Bell to help free him from the likes of MacArthur. In spite of some criticisms of Bell's book, I thought it was very welcome coming from someone with the following that Rob has.<br />
<br />
But back to the Study Bibles, I just had to have that Cambridge NIV Study Bible in the goatskin leather. It felt good in the hands, smelled good, holy even! This is allegedly the most widely selling Study Bible and I had yet to really examine it. What I found was shocking. The Bible goes out of its way to say that verses (and there are a lot of them!) don't say what they fairly clearly say! Just a couple examples. <br />
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1 Timothy 4:10 (NIV) states: "...we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe." (those who believe have a wonderful, albeit subjective hope, unlike those who do not believe; this may explain the word "especially," but the point here is God is "the Savior of all men," whether they know it or have this hope currently or not.)<br />
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Here's the NIV Study Bible's note: "Obviously this does not mean that God saves every person from eternal punishment, for such universalism would contradict the clear testimony of Scripture. God is, however, the Savior of all in that he offers salvation to all and saves all who come to him."<br />
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WOW. They have the "clear testimony of Scripture" right in front of their face and contradict it. That passage does not say "exclusively" no matter how much they wish it did! It says "especially" or "specially" in the King James. <br />
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One more: 1 John 2:2 (NIV) states of Christ: "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." Debates on the atonement, how it operated and so forth aside, the verse seems pretty clear in that it includes the sins of the whole world! That is wonderful news! And now for our helpful study note to rain on the parade! -<br />
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NIV Study Bible note: "...In this way the Father's wrath is satisfied....Forgiveness through Christ's atoning sacrifice is not limited to one particular group only; it has worldwide application....It must, however, be received by faith....Thus this verse does not teach universalism (that all people ultimately will be saved), but that God is an impartial God."<br />
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The Father's wrath was satisfied in this way? Well, that's a train-wreck of a statement right there. It portrays a cruel God satisfying his bloodthirstiness on Jesus. I, for one, totally understand people who want nothing to do with such a God. But even if we give them that, if the Father's wrath was satisfied, where do they find that people must DO something ("receive") in this lifetime necessarily, in order to avoid eternal conscious torment? The study note teaches substitutionary atonement, but if the penalty for sin is eternal conscious torment, and Jesus needed to bear this to satisfy "justice," or "wrath," then by their reasoning, Jesus would still need to be in hell, suffering eternal conscious torment to "satisfy" God. What a miserable, wretched misunderstanding of the grace and love of God. There are no strings attached in this verse that warrant this disgraceful study note. <br />
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Let us reject this portrait of a sadistic cosmic dictator with all of our being, and pray that the truly good news that this verse and many others (specific texts abound, but we should look to Jesus to see what God is really like! -- healing, forgiving, blessing, and loving his creatures, all of them with special attention to the outcasts) teach will resonate in the hearts and minds of people everywhere so they may be freed from fear, "religion," hatred, and other evils that abound in the notes in some of these Study Bibles and churches today. <br />
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I think we need another Study Bible. Perhaps another translation even. But more important than all this is that we strive to be like Christ, that we follow him in blessing poor people, comforting people in pain and just being a friend/loving the outcasts among us today. We are told not to judge others, or we will reap judgment ourselves. We all fall short! God knows this and looks at the heart; it's how we treat others that really matters! - It's absurd to think that God is waiting up there (very, very mad still) with a pencil (and an eraser) in one hand and an eternal hot poker in the other just in case people don't say the sinner's prayer in this lifetime.<br />
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Imagine that, Jesus with a hot poker, tormenting someone who never heard of him or for some reason or another didn't "receive" him in this lifetime, over and over again forever without mercy. Unthinkable!! The holocaust is over! Prolonging the torment for infinity to satisfy retributive wrath?? God forbid! Of course, this is what many churches today actually, in effect, are propagating about our merciful God! They have made God into a monster! I would go so far as to call this doctrine of eternal conscious torture "satanic." <br />
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Let's pray that God motivate more people to get together, stand up and demonstrate, write about, preach and teach what God is really like and bring glory to his name, instead of the shame and, frankly, evil that is being attributed to him so widely today. And then let us live out what we know to be true to the best of our abilities, with God's help! Let's strive to have mercy and be kind towards all God's children.<br />
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God bless,<br />
DavidRev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-15393196984488762572011-03-16T19:23:00.000-07:002011-03-16T19:28:43.279-07:00A Couple Links<div class="MsoNormal">Greetings Friends! Just in case you haven't seen it, here is a link to Mars Hill pastor Rob Bell's short video on his upcoming book which is creating quite a stir! I am looking forward to the book. I believe we need to pray for Rob and support him however we can. </div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwfqBNICf4">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwfqBNICf4</a></div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">And thank you, my friend Chuck, for sharing the following piece from Carlton Pearson on Facebook. Sometimes I find myself not agreeing with Carlton on every single point, but we agree on what is most important. This man has sacrificed a great deal and takes a lot of heat from people who hate him now. I hope we will remember Carlton in our prayers as well and that God will continue to strengthen and give these men perseverance in spreading the good news! </div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7F75SBvayg%20">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7F75SBvayg </a><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal">God bless, </div><div class="MsoNormal">David</div><div class="MsoNormal"><br />
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</div>Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-65000495066304250862011-03-14T20:12:00.000-07:002011-03-14T20:12:08.205-07:00The Quake, Annapolis Friends Meeting Report and a Surprise Meeting!Greetings Friends!<br />
<br />
Hope you are getting along OK. I'm just horrified by the tragedy in Japan. It's even more devastating since I lived there for about seven years and my wife's hometown was Sendai. Luckily for the city itself, they had an earthquake in the late 70's that scared my wife badly. She was pretty young at the time and it seemed like everything was collapsing. Well, that's because it was! They had to rebuild a good portion of the city and they did it to withstand earthquakes such as this one. Still, the tsunami is a force of nature that even the engineering skill of Japan couldn't reckon with. Any and all prayers for Japan would be appreciated. If we feel powerless we can still pray hard and I believe it can make a difference although I do not for one second believe God "caused" the quake. <br />
<br />
Anyway, I did visit the Annapolis Friends Meeting on Sunday. It was something like I've never experienced before. A couple of the folks greeted me and invited me to enter the sanctuary and have a seat. And there we sat, for about 50 minutes in complete silence! I will say the place smelled nice, a strong scent of wood like I was out in nature and so I got so relaxed in there I just about fell asleep! After about 50 minutes then, two ladies stood up and said what they felt led to say. I do feel welcome to come back there and may visit them again sometime. They are just down the road from the Unitarian Universalist Church, which I'm instinctively more cautious against but that will not keep me from visiting one of their services. I'll let you know what it was like! I'm sure I will meet some good people there, as I did at the Quaker service. That's where we need to start, meeting people, forming relationships and then getting the Christian Universalists among us together! That's what we are going to do, I have no doubt about this, although it will take time.<br />
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Next, I received a surprise email on Saturday from the wonderful man who runs the Tentmaker website, Gary Amirault! I had been communicating with him via email and he let me know he was in town for a few days. We had a nice chat at a Barnes and Noble (one of my favorite places for having church and/or fellowship right now!) and I felt privileged and even blessed to be able to speak with Gary since his website with all its information and articles that were so helpful to me when I was learning about universal salvation. One thing I particularly remember from our conversation is his desire to present the message as Christ Victorious! I think this is a great idea. If 90% (or even one person, really) is going to suffer forever with no hope of repentance and no hope that God will ever have mercy on them then how can the churches call that a victory? Of course, they have it dead wrong. Jesus is the Savior of the whole world, not just a select few who happen to be born in the right place and taught the right beliefs during this lifetime. That is the message, the truly Good News! <br />
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We needn't worry that God will not have mercy on so-called "lost" loved ones because we know that it is God's mercy (or "love" as the new translations of Psalm 136 have it) that lasts forever and not his anger. It is true that God's ways are higher than our ways, and you may have fundamentalists (by this I mean those who insist you believe just as they believe, literally and precisely, just as they do -- anywhere from around five to fifteen beliefs they insist are mandatory in order to escape being tortured forever by God) resort to stating this as a tactic while they stubbornly hold onto their belief that God is tormenting most of his creatures for infinity. If they can overcome religious pride enough to discuss it with us at all we need to remind them that in Isaiah 55 the prophet was speaking in the context of the mercy of God, not somehow justifying any kind of eternal torment. All will be saved (1 Timothy 4:10; 1 John 2:2), God will have mercy on ALL (Romans 11:32); God will win and restore all creation to him - no more sickness, no more tears, no more death. Now THAT is good news. We have a lot to look forward to!! Never give up! And please remember Japan in your prayers.<br />
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God bless,<br />
David Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-43527247608517708312011-03-05T11:51:00.000-08:002011-03-05T11:51:40.838-08:00Plans and Literature<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/> <w:DontFlipMirrorIndents/> <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true"
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</style> <![endif]--> <div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;">Tomorrow I plan to visit the Annapolis Friends Meeting.<span> </span>Their website indicated a kind disposition towards all God’s creatures and I have high hopes of meeting people there who share the view that God is not going to eternally torment his own creatures for sins committed in this short lifetime.<span> </span>What a difference this stance is compared to the website of a local Baptist church I received literature from last week.<span> </span>The literature, interestingly, completely avoided the important topic of the afterlife.<span> </span>Why would they do this, I wondered, when their purpose was, I suspected, to pluck me from the everlasting fires of “hell.” Note that there is no such word in the Greek language – that will be a topic later – <span> </span>but if you would haven’t investigated this I would highly recommend you check out Gerry Beauchemin’s book <i>Hope Beyond Hell</i>, Kalen Fristad’s <i>Destined for Salvation, </i>or Eric Stetson’s <i>Christian Universalism</i> for excellent information on this topic.<span> </span><span> </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;">So, somewhat curious as to what the Baptist’s church’s true beliefs were on the issue of hell, I decided to check out their website.<span> </span>Why would they hide their views on “hell” from their door-to-door literature if not to conceal their view of God as an essentially merciless being who plans (and logically, planned this even when he created people) to torment his own creatures forever with no chance at repentance? <span> </span>Anyhow, sure enough, down at the bottom of their belief statement I found the following <b><u>horrific</u></b> confession:</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><i>“We believe that the souls of unbelievers remain, after death, in conscious misery until the second resurrection, when with soul and body reunited they shall appear at the Great White Throne Judgment, and shall be cast into the Lake of Fire, not to be annihilated, but to suffer everlasting, conscious punishment (Luke 16:19-26; Matthew 25:41-46; II Thessalonians 1:7-9; Jude 6-7; Mark 9:43-48; Revelation 20:11-15).”</i></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;">Note the common technique of making a dogmatic statement and then picking out a few verses that they think supports this belief.<span> </span>Most people probably never look up such laundry lists of verses.<span> </span>Note, however, that this is a VERY short list, and it is pretty much complete.<span> </span>That’s all they have.<span> </span>What’s more, each one of these passages can be shown to be incorrectly interpreted without much difficulty. <span> </span>Again, the books cited above deal with each of these passages in detail and I will be posting interpretations of these passages that will show clearly that they do NOT teach that anyone will “…suffer everlasting conscious punishment.”<span> </span>Horror of horrors!<span> </span>No wonder the church has hidden this hideous belief from their evangelical literature.<span> </span>This makes the concentration camps of Nazi Germany and the holocaust seem like relatively minor events if one thinks of billions upon billions of God’s creatures being put into the furnaces, not to be destroyed, but to be subject to his eternal wrath!<span> </span>May it never be.<span> </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;">Thank God, this is not what the Bible really teaches about the nature of God.<span> </span>It says God is Love in the book of 1 John, twice.<span> </span>Jesus demonstrated to us what God is REALLY like.<span> </span>Can you imagine Jesus tossing live human beings into a burning pit?<span> </span>Jesus commanded us to love our enemies and forgave his own enemies even hanging on the cross, by all the accounts we have available.<span> </span>Can anyone who has read of the love of God and Jesus really believe that he will not have mercy when people ask for it, even after death?<span> </span>Unfortunately, it seems, many people can – generally a good number of kindhearted people in the eternal torment churches believe this because they incorrectly think this is what the Bible teaches and they don’t think it is all that important, perhaps.<span> </span>But it is.<span> </span>Well, we have good news for them – this is not what the Bible says about God or “hell” at all!<span> </span>God’s mercy endures forever, his “wrath” lasts only a moment, and there are many more passages that show that God will have all creatures to be saved ultimately, with punishments fitting the crime.<span> </span>I will not give a laundry list of verses (but there are a LOT more than just five of them) to support what I have said here, in future posts.</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span> </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;">To conclude, this portrayal of God as one who runs a cosmic torture chamber that never ends because his creatures didn’t believe in him, or pray to Jesus to “receive” him (or something to that effect) during this short life is a horrific misrepresentation of our merciful Creator, our Father in heaven, who cares about all people and will have all people to be saved in the end.<span> </span>Everyone may get a little fire or a lot of fire which means punishments and rewards appropriate to perfect justice tempered with mercy that endures forever.<span> </span>Punishment is for REMEDIAL purpose.<span> </span>That’s what the Greek word for punishment in the Matthew 25 passage above really means – it means “chastening” or “chastising.”<span> </span>THAT is the good news.<span> </span>No wonder the Baptist church hid their terrible view of hell in their literature.<span> </span>Their tactics are reminiscent of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.<span> </span>They put a shiny, happy face on their literature when underneath they believe in a God who will keep people alive in torment for NO PURPOSE.<span> </span><span> </span>It should be noted that the Jehovah’s Witnesses at least believe that the wicked will eventually be put out of their misery!<span> </span>We believe this is an error, but it is infinitely better than the alternative: <span> </span>eternal conscious misery for infinity.<span> </span><span> </span>There is probably no more damaging doctrine to the image of a loving God than this doctrine that he is going to eternally torture his own creatures for all infinity with no mercy.<span> </span>We need to be more vocal and aggressive in standing against this doctrine!</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;">“For men are not cast off by the Lord forever. Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love.”<span> </span>(Lamentations 3:31-32)</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;">God bless all of you and please feel free to respond with comments or questions, anytime.</div>Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-49500672782746697852011-02-27T12:04:00.000-08:002011-02-27T12:04:34.731-08:00New CUA Board MemberWell, I received a pleasant surprise last week and that was an invitation to serve on the Christian Universalist Association <a href="http://www.christianuniversalist.org/">http://www.christianuniversalist.org</a> Board of Directors! I gladly accepted this opportunity to serve in whatever way I can. I would be grateful for your prayers to do a good job in everything and would very much welcome any requests you might have for prayer as well. Some CUA members spend a lot of time and energy praying for others and I can tell you from personal experience that it is very powerful and spiritually helps the one (or many) praying and all those he or she is praying for in amazing ways.Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763551394104228385.post-67220062850847030892011-02-22T10:59:00.000-08:002011-02-22T12:05:01.680-08:00Getting Together in MarylandWelcome! I'm Dave Spatz, Christian Universalist Minister in Maryland. For anyone new to Christian Universalism, the site www.christianuniversalist.org is a good place to start. The primary belief is that God will not torment any of his creatures forever and ever in "hell," but will administer punishments and rewards that fit the crime and deeds in this life. Ultimately, all of God's creatures, all his children, will be reconciled to God. This is really good news, considering many of us have loved ones who have not done certain things that fundamentalists insist are mandatory and are therefore in hell with no hope for escape, forever, to no purpose except "justice." Is that justice? That, my friends, is bad news! It is not even what the Bible says and definitely not something the God, who is Love, would do to his creatures. Would any human father do something like this to his children? Keeping them alive forever in agony even if they have never even heard of Jesus Christ? Only a very evil one, perhaps; but God is good, not evil! Therefore, unless most humans are more merciful than God is, the doctrine of eternal torment in hell is something that must be rejected. According to fundamentalists, around 95 percent of the human race throughout history is destined for everlasting torment in hell. Most of these have never even heard of Jesus Christ. How absurd is it to believe that these people are eternally damned! This belief makes God out to be some kind of a monster, not our Father, who cares about each one of us, and will not rest until all his children come home. <br />
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A note to fellow Christian Universalists in Maryland. Until we grow in numbers, I will be updating and posting here. Anyone interested in being added to my growing list of contacts please reply here. I expect actual meetings to be pushed back until the summertime, probably Sunday afternoons. More to come and I look forward to hearing from you as we work together to spread the good news! Please feel free to weigh in as we discuss issues, challenges, and anything you would like in this forum. The doctrine of "hell" keeps many from Christianity, justifiably, and damages the image of God. Many people want nothing to do with an eternal tormentor. We need to proclaim God's love for all and reassure people that God is not tormenting their loved ones for all eternity just for not saying the sinner's prayer or believing certain things about the Bible or the Trinity - you name it - in this life. God bless!Rev. David Spatzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05622016739759380908noreply@blogger.com2